Frost your mugs, it's time for another episode!

The latest Drunken Skeptics is out! Episode 11 is fresh and ready for your aggregators to consume!

In this episode we talk about TEDxDetroit, What Chris and Michelle have been doing with their time and as always we have Whiskey and Shenanigans!

Don’t forget to like us on Facebook and join our Meetup group!

You can find our show notes here.

Darwin: Very gradual change we can believe in

Darwin Day falls on February 12th. Which is also  Abraham Lincoln’s birthday. But we decided to celebrate Darwin.

For our second annual Darwin Day, we have a lot of things planned. We’ve got a presentation, possibly a video and our Games Master has a new game that everyone can participate in!

Remember that we are in our new location. We’re meeting at Hayden’s Grill and Bar. It’s not far from Ginger but plan accordingly.

Come and join us for lively discussion, drinks, dinner and debate! This is a good event for Skeptics of Michigan to come together and discuss local, national, worldwide items affecting skeptics. All are welcome to listen and participate.

We also have special guests and speakers that contribute to the conversation and/or debate.

Please be sure to RSVP so I know how many are coming. You can also RSVP on Facebook.  That way I can modify the reservation if necessary.

I hope to see you all there!

There have been many times that I have spoken with Christians who have tried to persuade me that I should join their religion. The reasoning behind it is of course their wanting to “save” me. They believe that I am not only going to hell, but that I am somehow trying to undermine their religious freedoms by demanding equal rights.

Witnessing

If only they followed what that sign says.

I would first like to address the methods and tactics you use in your attempts to “save” people. Witnessing is, in effect, telling the story of what made you a Christian. I can not count how many times I have been “witnessed”. I have had many Christians tell me that this is the most important tool in their arsenal, (their word, not mine). The framework of a witnessing story is fairly common. A person is weak, they do bad things and sin or have become injured in some way. Then some sort of extreme religious event happens, which could be a vision of Jesus, or visiting by angels that causes the person to become “Born Again”. Then because of that, they have the strength to overcome the hardship or suddenly become healed. That extreme event is what interests me the most. That’s where the most creativity and detail is put in to the story. Then it ends up with everything turning out great, and them being a devout Christian. Like the happy ending of a sitcom. I really need to tell you, this doesn’t work, and here’s why.

Every time I get witnessed I have the same reaction, “Yeah, and?”. I’m completely baffled as to why you like to do this all the time. Sure it’s a great story. I liked Harry Potter too, but that had a better epilogue. The reason why this doesn’t work is simple. I and the atheist community, don’t believe you. Sure, I believe that you believe what you said, but I don’t believe it happened the way you said it, or if it happened at all. I’m not accusing any of you of deliberately lying in your witnessing, though I would not be surprised if some of you have. Memory can be a tricky thing, it changes over time. It’s not the rock solid event recorder that is popular to believe. Many of the examples I’ve heard could have been attributed to coincidence, to hallucination, or to you managing to turn your life around. I have also heard many “spontaneous healing” stories where simple research would tell you that the condition could reverse itself. Many Medical conditions are self limiting. Conditions with the spine and even cancer have self limited at times. You deserve the credit for what you have done.You, and you alone. Congratulations to those of you that have told me stories of getting off drugs, getting off the streets, or getting through a war. Those are all commendable achievements. I cannot see any reason why you would attribute your hard work to someone or something else. I do suppose it’s comforting to believe there is someone watching over you and intervening on your behalf, but that’s just giving your accomplishments away. You did the work, and it’s OK to take the credit.

Why is this your most powerful tool? You’re trying to prove god exists with an anecdote? We keep asking for proof. You respond with a story. A story is not proof. When someone asks me to believe something, I’m going to ask them for proof. Here’s an Example:

A friend tells me that he hit a grand slam at his company’s softball tournament. I congratulate him. He then proceeds to tell me that, because of this grand slam he was given a hefty promotion, is moving into a bigger house and got a date with the woman he’s had a crush on for years.

That’s a bit much to believe from a great play in baseball. No company would base their HR promotion strategy on softball performance. So I ask for proof.

He tells me the story of that night when he hit the grand slam. It’s a great story with tension, drama, suspense and excitement. In the end, he’s not given me proof. I was entertained and I would have enjoyed hearing the story anyway but he did not draw the link to his advancements and the grand slam. So I ask him to explain how he got the promotion from softball.

He shows me his offer letter and amended contract with the greater responsibility, the greater pay and and the amenities. He then shows me the emails from the lady he has a crush on. He also shows me the loan papers for the house he purchased.

This is where the burden of proof becomes clear. He has verified all the aspects of his story. He was able to document his promotion, his new house and the date. But he was never able to show how the grand slam caused the promotion. It is more likely to say that he got the promotion from hard work and was being recognized for his abilities. Getting a date could be attributed to extra confidence from the promotion to actually go over and speak with girl of his dreams.

Despite the story, he got a promotion and a date. Should he praise the grand slam? Or should he praise the hard work that got him where he is now? The story is completely fictional, of course. I wrote it for the purpose of providing an example.

Whether you go forward in witnessing to people or not, I want you to realize how your story sounds to other people. It sounds like you are giving praise to something other than yourself for your hard work. I’m sure the story is great but it’s still just a story.

Indirect Threats and Insults

These are some of my favorite attempts at converting. Some of these are so ridiculous it’s hard to believe anyone that graduated middle school came up with these. It’s more of a passive-aggressive attempt, but an attempt none-the-less. They are usually in the form of a question. I’ll touch on them one at a time.

1: “If you don’t believe, you’ll go to hell. Aren’t you afraid of going to hell?”

Meaning: You’re going to hell.

Why, no. No I’m not.

There is no heaven, there is also no hell. Consider that according to the bible, god created everything. He also created Satan. The bible never mentions who created hell, but It’s safe to assume that credit can go to god. Now since there is no god, and there is no satan, there is no heaven and hell and there are no pearly gates. So no, I’m not afraid of going to hell. It doesn’t exist.

2: “You need to believe in god to have morals. All our morality comes from god and the bible.”

Meaning: You have no morals.

If that were true we would live in a very different place.

It is a very simple response. All morality does not come from the bible. There are in fact probably along the lines of thousands of books that speak of morality and morals. Now here’s where it gets difficult. One needs to learn their morality through study. It’s true that most of a society’s morality can be fleshed out through empathy. (Example: I don’t want to be killed, and I’m sure that that other person does not want to be killed either, so I shouldn’t kill.) It’s not hard to reason out and we don’t need the hanging threat of eternal torture to make us do what’s right. There are of course more difficult choices that morality contends with than killing and coveting people or things, like geopolitical relations. I’m not going to go into detail here but if you would like to have a discussion on the topic I would love to speak with you on it.

Now let’s look at the morality of the bible. It says Thou shall not kill (Exodus 20:13) but then is instructs you to kill entire populations (Numbers 31:7), to rape women (Genesis 19:8), to dash children on the rocks (Psalm 137:9). It says that disobedient children should be stoned to death (Deuteronomy 21: 20-21). Women that have been raped must marry the rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-9). Homosexuals need to be murdered (Leviticus 20:10).

I’m happy with my morals, thank you very much. Mine don’t call for violence.

Oh by the way, for those of you saying “But that’s the OLD Testament!” Remember Matthew 5:17-9 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”

3: “So why don’t you love god? Are you a satan worshipper?”

Meaning: You’re a Satan Worshipper.

See #1.

4: “Why do you hate god?”

Meaning: You’re just a hater.

The question is irrelevant. God doesn’t exist. The same question can also be asked about Darth Vader, Ghost Rider and Barney the purple dinosaur. I do have a problem with some of the people who believe in it though.

“Saving” Never Works

Then people start getting defensive. Usually when they can’t convert us, we get attacked. Mostly verbally, though physical violence happens more than you would think. We are often threatened, on the Internet where they can hide behind anonymity. When Christopher Hitchens died, a popular trending hashtag was the title of one of his books, #godisnotgreat. There were many threats of violence and calls for atheists to commit violence against themselves.

Jessica Ahlquist recently won a court case to remove a religious banner from her school. She is still receiving threats of physical violence. Apparently Christian morality says it’s OK to threaten a 16 year old girl for standing up for her rights.

We also get questions like, “Why can’t you just leave Christianity alone?” or “You are trying to subjugate our rights!”. It is because of the major religions that I cannot openly talk about my Atheism. It is because of threats in the name of religion that I have to remain secret at most times. For centuries and millennia, Atheists were tortured and killed for not believing as we were told. All we want is the same freedom that you have. We aren’t attacking you, we are defending our rights against your open discrimination and your claims that it’s your religious right to hate. When you understand and can tolerate that there are other people and ideas on this planet than yours, then you will be left alone.

Hitchens and Fry from the IQ2 Debate

This month for out MISkeptics Get Together we are doing a tribute to Hitch. We’ll be watching a debate between him and an apologist and (assuming the damn DVD ever gets shipped to me) a tribute hosted my Stephan Fry.

Come and join us for lively discussion, drinks, dinner and debate! This is a good event for Skeptics of Michigan to come together and discuss local, national, worldwide items affecting skeptics. All are welcome to listen and participate.

We also have special guests and speakers that contribute to the conversation and/or debate.

Please be sure to RSVP so I know how many are coming. That way I can modify the reservation if necessary. You can RSVP on out Meetup Page or our Facebook Event Page.

I hope to see you all there!

The group recorded the audio of the Q & A, and you can listen or download it on the Ann Arbor Science & Skeptic website, or through their iTunes podcast feed.   

AE911′s position primarily relies on material evidence and eyewitness accounts that suggest a controlled demolition of the World Trade Center buildings.  In particular, many of their arguments are focused on the way that WTC7 fell (because it was not hit by a plane, and fell later in the day).  The group does not make claims about which agency or group was behind the demolition, nor do they offer a motive.  However, Stanley and other representatives of AE911 can give you their opinions when not serving in the capacity of the group.

I think discussion went fairly well.  There were under 30 attendees and there were probably equal number of 9/11 Truthers and skeptics, with a sprinkling of people who’ve not made up their mind.  Despite warnings from people that this kind of discussion can become emotional and contentious, there was very little acrimony.

Ultimately, what I took away from the experience is that I think AE911 representatives need to be better equipped in responding to the skeptic arguments.  Stanley and the other 9/11 Truthers didn’t impress me with the merit of their rebuttals.  Amongst the common replies, were “check this website out”, and “watch these youtube videos”, and a bit of hand-waving over legitimate questions such as what was the point of using thermite to bring down the buildings?

With that being said, Stanley and the 9/11 Truthers did impress me in one way.  They were calm, composed, and not the often stereotypical description of conspiracy theorists.  It reminds me that there is a spectrum of which one accepts aternative viewpoints.  And sometimes I think skeptics are often treated to a caricature of what a ‘believer’ is - whereas the reality is that there can be sophistication in their position.

You can register online here.

You can register here at the Michigan Atheists website or print out the pdf and mail it in with your fee.  There is also a reception on Friday evening from 6pm to 10pm for those who register.

The Clarion Hotel and Conference Center is located at 2900 Jackson Rd, Ann Arbor, MI 48103.

The Michigan Atheists are a group that fights for the separation of church and state.  When policy-makers overstep, the Michigan Atheists try to inform the secular community so that an appropriate reaction can take place.

Introducing MISkeptics new Google Plus page.

Go ahead and click on that strange red badge to head over to Google Plus and add us to your circles!

As you probably already know, we’re moving our Facebook page from a standard user account to an organization page. So if you’re friend-ed, head over to our new page and “Like” it.

Don’t forget, this Saturday we have Jo Randall. She has a talent with music and skepticism. She’s not to be missed.

See you there!

Jo will also be showing off her artwork. If anyone is interested in purchasing her art it will be available. Bring money.

Come and join us for lively discussion, drinks, dinner and debate! This is a good event for Skeptics of Michigan to come together and discuss local, national, worldwide items affecting skeptics. All are welcome to listen and participate.

Please be sure to RSVP so I know how many are coming. That way I can modify the reservation if necessary. You can RSVP at our Meetup page or at our Facebook page ( you can also see you Facebook link to your right).

I hope to see you all there!

The Magic of Reality: How We Know What’s Really True

Our monthly Get together is not going to be held this month. There is small scheduling conflict. Richard Dawkins is going to be in town on tour for his new book, The Magic of Reality: How We Know What’s Really True. I just can’t compete with that…

So instead we are going to go see him speak on his new book. this is an all ages event since his new book is geared towards children and teens so please bring them along!

Filled with clever thought experiments, dazzling pictures, and jaw-dropping facts, this book is for anyone interested in the world around them. Richard will be reading from his new book and answering questions, along with a book signing. Following that, there will be ice cream social and science experiments for the kids to try!

We’ve posted a meetup event for organizing and carpooling. Please register and post there if you are interested.

Seating is limited and is first come, first serve. You need to pre-register here for tickets to the event which guarantee you a place.  This is going to be a great event and I look forward to seeing you all there!